exodus dramaz

[Anatheras]

so what do you guys think of all this? i'm avoiding realm forum nazis but its a really interesting topic to me.

i mean obviously its bad if they exploit and whatnot and sure ensidia isn't exactly running on a clean record either, but man watching buzzkill rail on this guy from exodus is amazing. i haven't seen a verbal colon stretching like that in a while.

[Sylv]

I really don't care.

[itsflailandimwylansno1fan]

I still haven't figured out how they can say they are exploiting. They posted the WWS.

[Vys]

Honestly, <Ensidia> needs to shut the fuck up. I was more of a fanboi for <Risen> than <Nihilum> but I lost a fuck ton of respect for them and their exploits in TBC simply so they could continue their world firsts streak. Lol@25 soulstones Kael'Thas.

I'd be more than happy to have any other guild berate Exodus if they did indeed exploit it.

[Lumy]

Innocent until proven guilty!

[Kineta]

If you are talking about 0 keeper Yogg-Saron this is what/how they did it.

Ok you all know the constrictor Tentacles right?

Well, at the beginning of phase 3, you make sure a healer gets caught up in 1, and then all the adds evade onto the healer in the constrictor (and the healer doesnt take damage from adds) so everyone can just dps Yogg.

That is the bug and I am sure it will be hotfixed if it has not been already

[itsflailandimwylansno1fan]

interesting read that just went up. http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=18031199317&sid=1

Considering the much-heated debate over the past few days concerning a certain guild defeating a controversial World First encounter, I feel the following should be made publicly available, so the relevant parties may decide for themselves what to believe.

Alone in the Darkness (commonly referred to as 0 Keeper Yogg), was and is still considered by many to be a mathematically impossible encounter. Per typical human nature, anything deemed impossible is often scrutinized as a simple act of closed-mindedness, or unwillingness to come up with new and creative ways to solve the problem at hand. This thread aims to clarify those feelings on behalf of both sides of the argument.

For those unfamiliar, Yogg-Saron's Phase 3 without the assistance of any Keepers (Freya, Hodir, Mimiron, and most importantly Thorim) changes drastically upon the removal of the later's help. Frequently throughout the Phase, mobs spawn known as Immortal Guardians, aptly named due to their immortality in the absence of Thorim's killing blow. In this case, they hover at 1% health. The damage they deal to their target scales based on their health percentage. A Guardian at 100% health hits tanks significantly harder than at 1%. There also exist several mechanics in this Phase that enable these Guardians to re-gain their health, making the climax of Alone in the Darkness a struggle between keeping the dozens of adds as low as possible while still defeating Yogg-Saron himself within the Enrage timer.

The abilities are as follows:

1. Lunatic Gaze - Inflicts 5,700 to 6,300 Shadow damage and 4% Sanity every 1 second as long as the target faces Yogg-Saron. Raid-wide, cast periodically with a visual effect.
2. Shadow Beacon - Targets an Immortal Guardian for Empowering Shadows.
3. Empowering Shadows - Regenerates 37,500 Hit points every 1 second, for 20 seconds (Total: 750,000) to nearby allies. Cast on the Shadow Beacon 10 seconds after buff is applied.
4. Drain Life - Transfers 3333 health every 1 sec from the target to the caster. Lasts 5 sec.


Here are the assumptions that are used for the math that you will read further below:

1. Phase 3 begins with 7 minutes (420 seconds) left on the Enrage Timer.
2. The raid makeup consists of 18 damage dealers, 3 tanks, and 4 healers.
3. The 2 tanks that are taunting Beacon'ed Guardians never miss a taunt, and always succeed in dragging every target necessary 20 yards away from the others.
4. 0 ticks of Drain Life go off the entire encounter. This requires all rogues present to be spec'ed into 2/2 Throwing Specialization, increasing the range of Throw and Deadly Throw by 4 yards and giving your Deadly Throw and Fan of Knives abilities a 100% chance to interrupt the target for 3 sec.
5. The rogues using Fan of Knives have Wound Poison available, decreasing the self-healing of every Immortal Guardian by 50%.
6. All damage dealers capable of AoE'ing can do 2,000 DPS per mob under the effect of the AoE ability.
7. All damage dealers can do 5,000 sustained single-target DPS.
8. Yogg-Saron begins at 30% of his original health, and is defeated at approximately 2% remaining, making the needed damage done to him be about 15,500,000.
9. Yogg-Saron casts Lunatic Gaze exactly every 15 seconds, lasting 4 seconds, and it takes half a second to turn around both times. This means that, out of 420 available seconds to damage Yogg, only 315 are usable. The other 95 seconds are only DoT damage.


Empowering Shadows begins on a 45 second cooldown the moment Phase 3 is initiated. 10 seconds before Empowering Shadows is cast, Shadow Beacons are place on 1 or more Immortal Guardians, signaling which will be targeted with Emp Shadows. The unconfirmed cap on the number of Shadow Beacons Yogg-Saron hands out is 5, and anecdotal evidence shows it to almost never be below 3. The Guardians are grouped together and AoE'ed. Given that all Beacon'ed Guardians will hit one another with their Empowering Shadows heal, the amount each Guardian heals per second for those 20 seconds scales as follows:

3 Guardians - 56,250 HPS
4 Guardians - 75,000 HPS
5 Guardians - 93,750 HPS

During the 20 second duration of Empowering Shadows, the HPS is far too much to even warrant damaging the adds while it is active. After the 20 seconds are over, the Beacon'ed adds are pulled back to the rest of the group on top of Yogg-Saron and AoE'ed. Iin the unlikely scenario that every damage dealer can AoE, all healed Guardians will be back to 1% after 15 seconds of AoE. Given the fact that not everyone is capable of AoE'ing, that number is closer to 20 seconds. Thus, after 65 seconds into Phase 3 (45 for the initial Emp Shadows cast, and 20 waiting for the duration to end), your raid alternates 20 seconds of bringing adds back to 1%, and 25 seconds of Yogg damage time.

What must also be kept in mind is that through the entirety of Phase 3, Immortal Guardians are continually spawning, one every 10 seconds to be exact. Those that spawn during the already on-going AoE we will assume are brought to 1% along with the rest. However, when AoE is not occuring we will assume the entire raid turns and brings it to 1% within 5 seconds. This cuts single target DPS time on Yogg-Saron alone in half.

Here comes fun math time. Skip this if you just want the conclusion:

65 seconds of 18 damage dealers doing 5,000 DPS to Yogg, minus 16 seconds for Lunatic Gaze and 3,000,000 damage to Immortal Guardians = 1,410,000.
20 seconds of 10 AoE'ers doing 2,000 incidental DPS to Yogg, and 8 doing their usual 5,000 DPS = 1,200,000
25 seconds of 18 damage dealers doing 5,000 DPS to Yogg, minus 6 seconds for Lunatic Gaze and 1,000,000 damage to Immortal Guardians = 710,000

The timeline of those 7 minutes is as follows:

420 seconds left - Phase 3 begins
355 seconds left - Beacon'ed Guardians are AoE'ed
335 seconds left - Full DPS on Yogg
310 seconds left - Beacon'ed Guardians are AoE'ed
290 seconds left - Full DPS on Yogg
265 seconds left - Beacon'ed Guardians are AoE'ed
245 seconds left - Full DPS on Yogg
220 seconds left - Beacon'ed Guardians are AoE'ed
200 seconds left - Full DPS on Yogg
175 seconds left - Beacon'ed Guardians are AoE'ed
155 seconds left - Full DPS on Yogg
120 seconds left - Beacon'ed Guardians are AoE'ed
100 seconds left - Full DPS on Yogg
75 seconds left - Beacon'ed Guardians are AoE'ed
55 seconds left - Full DPS on Yogg, ignore single-targeting the adds that spawn and the final Empowering Shadows, just a full burn until either the raid or Yogg dies. Assume Bloodlust/Heroism here.

This comes out to one 65 second phase of 1,410,000 damage, one 55 second phase of 6,435,000 damage, 7 phases of incidental 1,200,000 damage, and 6 phases of 710,000 pure burn.

1,410,000 + 6,435,000 + (7 * 1,200,000) + (6 * 710,000) = 20,505,000 damage.


ALTERNATE STRATEGY:

Raid makeup is changed to 6 Tanks, 4 Healers, 15 DPS. As opposed to letting the Beacons heal one another in a clump and then AoE'ing them on top of Yogg afterwards, you single-target drag them out of the pack on top of Yogg-Saron, ensuring that each of the potential 5 are at least 20 yards away from one another. This is done through assigned tanks taunting their adds in a given order the moment Beacons are cast (Tank 1 taunt... now. Tank 2 taunt... now, etc) to prevent taunt overlaps, in addition to assigned positions in the room. 3 DPS are assigned to a Tank and his respective Immortal Guardian. The general idea is that, instead of waiting until after Empowering Shadows is done healing, to come as close to out-DPS'ing the HoT as possible. In reality with only 3 DPS on each of the possible 5 Beacon'ed Guardians, they will heal some, but not much. After those 20 seconds, the adds are all brought back, AoE taunted by the Main Tank, and incidental AoE will bring them back to 1% while damaging Yogg.

For this strategy, you have one 45 second phase of 550,000 damage, one final burn phase of 45 seconds doing 3,315,000 damage, eight 20 second phases of simultaneous single-target damage on Beacon'ed Guardians (Yogg takes no damage), and seven 25 second phases of 425,000.

550,000 + 3,315,000 + (8 * 0) + (7 * 425,000) = 6,840,000


Conclusion: The amount of damage done using the first strategy over the full 7 minutes of Phase 3 is approximately 4 million more than needed, assuming perfect play, minimal Beacon targets, and no accidental Empowered Shadows healing Yogg-Saron. Deafening Roar silences are also not accounted for, as this author has no reliable data with regards to the number of times Yogg-Saron would do this over a full 7 minutes. The second strategy of single tanks dragging out single Beacons is ridiculously below the damage requirement, and thus not feasible. Simply put, it is not impossible. The truly difficult part is always pulling every Beacon'ed Guardian away in time, and keeping tanks up while the adds are at high health after healing. This is where the potential impossibility factor comes in, but is hard to quantify due to it relying on reaction time and human capabilities. Can the off-tanks possibly sift through dozens of Immortal Guardians, taunt those with Beacons, and drag them away within 10 seconds? Some say yes, others, no.

My identity is irrelevant to the math involved, so in the interest of keeping this thread productive I have chosen to post on an alt. If things get out of hand I will make a judgment call from that point forward. I have personally found it quite humorous reading from players who have no idea what they're talking about referencing the math behind this encounter, and so I give you this. Do with it what you may.

If you have found any errors, please report them here and I will do my best to update the above with due haste.

[Sophey]

http://www.exo-guild.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11026#post11026

The rumors are indeed true. We have been suspended for 72 hours for:

Offense: Abuse of Game Mechanics
Details: Circumvention of normal combat mechanics to defeat the Yogg-Saron encounter inside the Ulduar raid instance.

In our many attempts at trying to figure out a way to defeat Yogg zero watcher, we found a way to use bugged game mechanics to make phase 3 easier in zero watcher then one watcher.

The bug is when someone is left inside the brain room of Yogg-Saron, they can still get aggro on the adds that spawn in phase 3. That means if you have someone getting healing aggro in the brain room, they will get aggro on the adds, which cause them to evade in place and allows for all of your raids dps to be focused on Yogg.

[Flarg]

fuck kungen/ensidia.

**Edit Javan too.

[Sylv]

fuck kungen/ensidia.

**Edit Javan too.

yeah fuck Javan the e-stalking Alpha fan boy

[Anatheras]

yeah fuck Javan the e-stalking Alpha fan boy

is there a story here?

[Lumy]

Long story short ex-Alpha member that would gear up and then leave for months at a time. He'd come back for some progression, gear up, then have to take off for some 'work' again. Now he goes out of his way to try and piss Alpha off by ridiculing anything we might do and riding MW coat-tails, always the first one to congratulate them on whatever they achieve.


And he fucking failed at healing fireblooms on Kil'Jaeden. Fuck, if I had a dollar for every time he let me die I'd be a rich man.

[Wheeler]

Funny shit. One of the guys that left the guild I am in currently for Exodus was the one that first stumbled across the bug. I guess we won't see him on his alt for the next 72 hours.

Regardless - Exodus brought up a bunch of valid points.

[Wendell]

Don't forget that when he was "off" he would still be online nightly for his Arena fix. Oh his internet connection was "iffy", but not bad enough to put a dent in his Arena ratings.

Repeatedly asked when he was going to be back for raiding, the date kept getting moved back as the patch got delayed. Once it hit, hallelujah, he is ready to go!

[Anatheras]

i know the type. everyone loves "that guy" who was never that good to begin with but you need him. he comes back from "time off" and then needs to "catch up on gear" so you get pressured into passing off to him and then he "has to go in to work" on friday night when youre doing kael'thas and are short that one or two aoe'ers to make it all work. and then on tuesday he acts so casually - "how did it go guys?" and you wanna choke him irl. and then his girlfriend wants to raid. but fuck that bitch is annoying. god damn. and she's bad. then they get in a huff and leave. two months later, he reconciles with the gm and gets back into the raids... rinse and repeat.


I JUST LOVE PEOPLE SO MUCH OH MY GOD

[Wylan]

He's an all around bitter asshole stuck in a mediocre guild who's burnt nearly every bridge possible on this server.

He has coined some of the more famous one liners in Alpha history most noteably "I was fine till it hit me" and my personal favorite "I should be back in <insert measurement of time>".

If this guy were a cereal he'd be Frosted Flakes.

All of his absences would be weaved around some elaborate story about him doing some feat of strength (not like getting an Atiesh, but like defusing a bomb on the Eiffel Tower for her Majesty's SS). I think one time he was off in the jungles of Angola looking for a cure for cancer. Another time he was off writing/producing a new movie for Pixar which demanded 6 months of his time between BT and Sunwell.

The only thing he's really good for is providing entertaining stories about how useless and unreliable he is.

Oh...he's also good at cocksucking from the sidelines because he himself....will never do anything that toes the line with real progression ever again.

Fuck him.

[Anatheras]

I wanna turn that into a mad lib and turn it into a question on my guild app.

"Using the mad lib below, critique another player of your class/spec on the realm."

[Sylv]

I wanna turn that into a mad lib and turn it into a question on my guild app.

"Using the mad lib below, critique another player of your class/spec on the realm."

lol this guy is all right

[Lumy]

Man Anatheras, the way you put it I could almost be that guy. :( Although my reasoning is inversely related to working. Teaching + summer = HOORAY SOCIAL TIME GREAT SUCCESS

Anyways, I'm sitting here reading up on all the Exodus drama, because I have nothing better to do in the mornings. Everything on MMO and their actual website, plus the nerd rage in the R&D forums over the weekend was immensely entertaining. So many butthurt fanboys raging all over the place.

[Anatheras]

It's okay, I too could be that guy. It's pretty generic on purpose - guilt is my #1 defense against floundering raiders ><

In other news, yeah last I saw the Ensidia forums had this chalked up to 81 pages or something, not to mention all the threads on the Ysondre forums and the R&D forums and the BUG forums and everything else. I found some really cool exploits, some of which I'd noticed and some which really made me laugh. If they only fix the stuff that's posted in the one news blip, a lot of people are gonna get a lot of shit out of all the tips and tricks that got shared during the deduction of "howtheydunnit"

[Wheeler]

"I was fine till it hit me"

That's amazing.

[Anatheras]

i feel like i owe javan a realm forum thread to show my gratitude for my glorious new signature but i really don't wanna get banned >.>

[Flarg]

Just wanted to comment here, Lumy you are a douche bag, thanks for leaving, and when you see Mirithal please punch him in the balls for me.

[Lumy]

Yes sir, Flarg.